You know, on the podcast we often speak about the importance of building trust and listening actively and sincerely and community led processes and approaches. She has led the release and reintegration of children associated to armed groups and forces, incarcerated children as well as survivors of sexual violence. Oftentimes, in these particular countries, it's the women who are being prosecuted and incarcerated for Zina, for having had sexual relationships outside of marriage. She is of Congolese and Iranian origins. Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda is a human rights lawyer who has a decade of experience working with the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), other UN agencies and non-governmental organizations in the US, France, DR Congo, the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, the Federal Republic of Nigeria and many others. Could you speak to that observation a bit, and maybe what you were referring to more specifically? It doesn't make sense that because you're higher up, you get access to more privileges. We can change and do better. And so we hid behind bushes, because we couldn't bike as, you know, women or rather, that was the perception that society sometimes had of us, and we had to hide behind bushes for it. How has it been to specifically be working for children in your work and how is that motivation maybe different when you're trying to address the well being of children? As these little children who have lived also all over the world, who are Black, who are African, who are French, who are American, who are Sierra Leonean, they have a very global perspective already for their age that we want to continue to honor as they grow up. So the fact that we don't have independence investigation bodies, we do not have recourse to independent investigation bodies - so this means that if an offence happens in your home and somebody from your home - okay maybe it's the annex to the home - is going to be investigating it. Our guest today is Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda. So all these inconsistencies and you know, the way we promote senior level management, where it's simply an email that says, you know, such and such person becomes such and such director over there, this director becomes director over there. We see it in many tech companies, you know, that deal with their own problems, I'm not saying they're the models to follow. Alex is of Afro-Iranian descent, born to an Iranian father and an Afro-Iranian mother. We must not be afraid of looking at new, fresh ways of approaching sustainable social change. In addition to her work helping children, Priscillia is a storyteller. Not just as a as a woman, but also as a mother. Priscillia: Yes, the IRC, the International Rescue Committee was doing this huge program in the easter part of the DR Congo. Together they are … So we definitely have a lot of work to do, a lot of improvement to make when it comes to applying a critical lens that's neutral, impartial and independent, as we are supposed to be applying. I really appreciate it. So oftentimes, because of this tension between having donors who are European donors, French donors, German donors and so forth, who have very generous envelopes, but also had that very strong will of wanting certain programs to go a certain way, based on whether it is in their political interest, economic interest, but also sometimes unfortunately, but also very understandably, a lack of knowledge of the reality of the regions where we were implementing our activities. Born in Germany, Norman is a comedian and presenter/host. During those deployments, Priscillia led negotiations with a dozen terrorist groups to secure the release of over 1,000 child soldiers, sexual slaves and girl-suicide bombers. The 2010 issue of the New York University School of Law's annual magazine. So unfortunately, in the international field, I don't believe personally that we are there at all. And how can we find some sort of common ground based on all these different conventions that were ratified, these different treaties that were adopted, that clearly indicate that the minimum standard is that not no one shall be arrested, unless there is absence of consent and so forth. ’08). Safa: In one of your earlier work experiences, you were working with the International Center for Transitional Justice as a Legal Researcher, and you conducted research on the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri. And even when I'm traveling, as a traveler in my private capacity, I always see myself as a guest in the country. We would find ways to support the women, the girls and also sometimes the boys who were going through these processes and we would work with a team of lawyers to support the legal advice being given, making sure that if they couldn't access legal advice, we were there to support them through our implementing partners so that they have access to the best legal advice that can enable them not to be sentenced. And in your experience, what have been your observations with that reality in terms of organizations you've been with, or your colleagues or just generally the way that white savior complexes play out in the type of work that's done in the sector? Could you speak to that experience that you had a bit and maybe how it has impacted your motivation to continue working in the sector on these issues? But obviously we are in the country that's hosting us. Priscillia is a human rights lawyer who has a decade of experience working with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), other UN agencies and non-governmental organizations in the U.S, France, DR Congo, the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, Central African Republic, the Federal Republic of Nigeria and many others. The simple fact that I'm even here having this conversation between two women that, you know, who's Iranian, who's lived all over the world and myself, this is in and in itself an act of revolution. I've worked in an Islamic Republic, for example. We are in a culture in the development world where it's not well perceived, it's not well received to be critical. And that was the case when all these organizations first started, for historical reasons that we all know. And as much as my work in the development field has enabled me to, hopefully, touch people's hearts as much as they've touched my heart, again, because I don't believe it's a relationship of me giving, saving, or any of us doing that, it's truly a mutual give. We have so many instances, and you know, I'm here to share my personal opinions, not the opinions of any of the agencies I've worked for. And I think it's such a great way of approaching the work that we are about to do in a country that is not ours. She has led the release and reintegration of children associated to armed groups and forces, incarcerated children as well as survivors of sexual violence. vi THE STATE OF THE WORLD’S CHILDREN 2012 Source: United Nations, Department of Economic and Social Affairs (UNDESA), Population Division special updated estimates of urban population as of October 2011, consistent with World Population Prospects: The 2010 revision and World Urbanization Prospects: The 2009 revision.Graphic presentation of data based on … The simple fact that there is a prevalence of abuse in this field is absolutely unacceptable. Currently, they live in New York but want to move back to Sierra Leone. Photo credit: Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda. Priscillia: I think the prevalence of these type of issues within the sector is the biggest alarm that we must change the way we are working. In my particular scope of work, for instance, when it comes to juvenile justice, in this particular Islamic Republic, I was involved in a lot of work around Sharia law, and sometimes, you know, we disagreed with the governmental counterparts on how some children rights should be considered or approached. And as much as we do want to operate where there are functions and there are positions and obviously there must be some level of like, you know, this is senior, this is this, this is that - there is still a way that we see in younger companies , that we see in startups, I'm not reinventing the wheel. In our conversations, we aim to rethink ethical behavior and best practices through the lived experiences and personal reflections of different practitioners. Now it's okay to talk about same sex marriage. Why does it matter? Priscillia was born in France from a Congolese father and Iranian mother. If the conversation makes everybody comfortable, then we shouldn't be having it. He is a graduate of York University with a major in sociology. Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda, Human Rights Lawyer, UN agencies and non-governmental organizations “Blackness as Historical Residue in Iranian Film” Parisa Vaziri, Assistant Professor of Comparative Literature and Near Eastern Studies, Cornell University Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Jo Impey Picture: Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda at work Credit: Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda Priscillia: It is such an excellent question in that you're asking me to be critical already, that's I think what should always be at the center of the work that we do, is always be constructively critical. Obviously, oftentimes, based on the different political shifts that the country where the offices are has undergone, and the different types of leadership that the counties also have known, that relationship of trust and confidence would be there to some extent or not. Could you tell us a bit about that role specifically and maybe some of the experiences you've had or observations you had with the politics of funding and grants and the challenges that exist in terms of relationships with donors or fundraising processes? Or number two, you can email us a short letter to your younger self sharing what you wish you had known when you first started working in the sector or tips about some of the things you've learned over the years. And it's what led me to study law, it's what led me to then specialize more in human rights and international law and then more specifically in children's rights and women's rights in the most remote parts of the world. And as much as to many people it may sound like you know, something really noble to do, for me, it always felt like a responsibility because of the way I grew up, the war I've experienced as a kid in Iran growing up in Tehran - and then later, you know, being from Congo and a lot of listeners hopefully are familiar with the history of Congo and the history of resilience of countries like Congo and Nigeria. I believe there's so much more room for improvement in the way we're doing it, especially when it comes to female staff and the female staff from minority groups all over the world, whether they're black female staff or whatever it is based on their countries. You also want it to be done equally in the same ways for all the countries, irrespective of their economic power, or their economic models or their political setups. I've become a firm believer that all organizations should have the most minimal presence in HQ, and all these kind of western presence should be diminished to the maximum and that presence in the field should be increased, but through the representation of the people from the countries. Safa: Just building on that, sometimes organizations and agencies, they work in countries with governments that are not democratic, but they still need to work with each other. She earned a Bachelor Degree in Broadcast Communications with a minor in business administration and public relations from Gonzaga University. Join Brazelton Touchpoints Center for Trauma and Recovery: Children in Warzones, Raising Children to Make Peace featuring Joshua Sparrow, MD in conversation with Ishmael Beah, Best-selling author and human rights activist, and Priscillia Kounkou-Hoveyda, Human rights lawyer and activist. What I had always asked myself and would ask in classes, whether it was at Sorbonne or at NYU, or even in EISSEC Business School in France, was why were the international laws and convention why were they written and ratified in places like Geneva or in Paris or you know, for most of them? Here she recounts her family’s harrowing attempt to escape war torn Tehran when she was a six year old child. So maybe for those who are not from Islamic Republic, you can picture it as having a boyfriend and maybe you're 20 and you're not married and you're having a boyfriend and your neighbours denounced and the authorities have the power to arrest you for Zina. And being in this particular role as a Grants Manager was very interesting exposure to who were the donors and who were the deciders, almost- I mean, not almost, to be totally transparent, I think donors have a lot of power in deciding how programs should be ran. Priscillia Kounkou-Hoveyda has worked for the UN for the past 10 years negotiating with warlords for the release of child soldiers from terrorist groups across Africa. So in this particular case, in a given Islamic Republic, you, for example, have Zina, which is, to simplify it, in this particular country, the crime of having sexual relationship outside of marriage. And why is it a problem for us to even bring that up, because it's a reasonable point to bring up that any person that has a minimum level of sensible intelligence can say well shouldn't it be an open, transparent competitive process so that we're sure that we're not just turning in circles here? Unfortunately, it's grayer than that. You know, this kind of almost double standard is probably, I mean, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say, a complexity that a lot of students and human rights attorneys have to grapple with. We push for certain human rights issues more than we push for others, we sometimes often wait too long on civil society, outside of the UN agencies, on people to push things forward so that then we can come and say, now it's okay to talk about Black Lives Matter. That's what the PNG statement kind of came and shook for me, significantly, at that time. Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda is a human rights lawyer who has a decade of experience working with UNICEF other UN agencies and NGOs in the US, France, DR Congo, Mauritania, Nigeria and other countries. Why? But there are different ways and different tools, strategies that people use to advance social justice, to fight for social justice and you yourself, you've worked as a writer, you're also co-founder of the Collective for Black Iranians - could you speak to the other ways, outside of humanitarian aid work, outside of being a lawyer also that you think are valuable and important strategies to use to fight for social justice and the way you're doing that? But that's not to say that obviously, we are also advocating, we're also pushing, so that if the envelope is not protecting children's rights enough for women's rights enough, we continue pushing using the international conventions and regulations that these particular countries may have adopted and ratified, and that therefore makes them accountable and liable to follow all of the minimum standards of protection, child protection. -Priscillia Kounkou Hoveyda (Human Rights Lawyer, UN agencies and non-governmental organizations)-Amir Vafa (Assistant Prof. English, Shiraz University) Moderated by Sima Shakhsari (Associate Prof. Women’s Studies Minnesota U) Sponsors: UNC Center for Middle East and Islamic Studies, Omar ibn Said Initiative, And I think that as we are evolving as a society, as we are modernizing as a society, hopefully, or at least we should be wanting to go towards these steps of better understanding each other, we also must, as organizations, be better at self criticism in a way that's constructive. The work I was doing there was concentrated where the humanitarian crisis had been taking place, which is in a different region of Nigeria than where I was living with my family in the capital city to be more precise, which was thriving with literature and music, you know, a wonderful place to be at. When it comes to working in emergencies, whether it's child protection emergencies, or other forms of emergencies, the governments, as much as it's possible, depending on how much of a government there is - because sometimes in emergency situations it’s a little more gray - the programs are designed together.

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